You can point to the hostile climate towards Black and Brown skin making solidarity a cultural and political statement that speaks to our shared fight right now.

Performing in Spanish, serves as the ultimate “FU” to MAGA and their vision for America - a reminder that our ancestral languages, rhythms, and stories have always been at the center of American culture.

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When former Bravo star Jennifer Welch’s furious rant about “triple-Trumped” white folks went viral recently, it struck a nerve with us, not just because of her bluntness, but because what she described was something we are very familiar with from our past interview with Dr. Barnor Hesse, Associate Professor of African American Studies, Political Science, and Sociology at Northwestern University.

What Welch laid out in her tirade, the way some white people rail against immigrants, people of color, or queer communities, while still eagerly consuming their food, music, and culture, is straight out of Dr. Hesse’s framework. He has a name for it: White Voyeurism, the enjoyment of non-white culture without solidarity with its people.

Back in 2022, when Dr. Barnor Hesse’s Eight White Identities graphic went viral in right-wing media, we reached out to him and were fortunate to land his first-ever U.S. interview for our Brown & Black podcast. Our conversation centered around his Eight White Identities with the creator himself walking us through each one, in his own words, which you can hear now in our latest episode.

The Making of a Meme: Barnor Hesse on the Origins of His Eight White Identities

Before discussing those definitions, we explored the methodology behind them, the social science that validates them, and the events that led to a student of his transforming a graphic created for a course into the oft-repeated meme and point of racial conflict it’s become. Hesse gave us a deep understanding of the history of studying behavior and why he created these identities to begin with. What we present here is an edited transcription of those two episodes, distilled into a digestible form for you to enjoy and refer to.

The Genesis of the Eight White Identities

In early 2022, a graphic outlining Dr. Barnor Hesse’s Eight White Identities exploded across right-wing media, sparking outrage from figures like Megyn Kelly and Ben Shapiro. But the framework wasn’t new it stemmed from Hesse’s decades of scholarship as an associate professor of African American studies, political science, and sociology at Northwestern University. In our conversation, Hesse traced its roots to his work in black political thought, a field that interrogates the entanglements of Western ideals like liberty and democracy with systems of oppression such as slavery, colonialism, and white supremacy.

When asked to define black political thought beyond the obvious, Dr. Hesse responded:

Well, as they say in all the great interviews, I’m glad you asked me that question. So, if you think back to what I’ve just said about political theory, I’ve described things that sound universal: justice, liberty, democracy, liberalism, freedom, and so on, and they are presented to us as universal.

These are usually ideas that are seen as the building blocks of the modern world. The modern world wasn’t simply built through these high ideals. It was built with values and developments that seemed to work against, or subvert or contradict these ideals. So if you think about the experience of black people brought into the modern world through slavery, from the point of slavery in the 16th century, right up until the 21st century.

You’ve seen so many different kinds of struggles and so many different kinds of ideas mobilizing black communities politically. So what black political thought does is to try and look at two things. On the one hand, what are the conditions out of which black social movements and political movements emerged, which give a very different picture of the world?

Then the dominant Western ideas we get. So let me give you an example. If in tradi- tional political theory there is a study of capitalism, well, in black political thought, we would look at capitalism and slavery together. If in traditional political theory there’s a study of liberalism, black political thought, we would look at liberalism and colonialism together because these things developed deeply entangled together.

If in traditional political theory there’s an examination of the history of modern democracy, we would look at the relationship between modern democracy and white supremacy because these two things develop deeply together. And if you think about those things that develop deeply together, that’s what ruptures, and that’s what creates the discrepancies and the impressions in the black experience against which movements emerged.

So on the other hand, if we’re thinking about the movements amongst black pop- ulations, black political thought would look at that whole range across 500 years. What Cedric Robinson calls the black radical tradition from anti-slavery and anti-colonialism, right into Pan-Africanism and black feminism, into civil rights and black lives matter. So all of that making of the modern world would be the arena in which black political thought operates.

This lens informed Dr. Hesse’s creation of the Eight White Identities, originally a teaching tool in a graduate seminar on race and democracy. The graphic was designed as a heuristic, a conceptual aid, to help students analyze how white identities manifest in relation to racism and anti-racism. It drew from historical and sociological observations, such as the split white identities during the Civil War: one defending slavery, another opposing it. Dr. Hesse expanded this into a nuanced hierarchy, reflecting shifts from the 1960s onward.

One of my students took a picture of it, put it on the internet, and it got picked up by right-wing media.

The viral moment began innocently: A student in Dr. Hesse’s class photographed the graphic and shared it online without his knowledge. It quickly morphed into a meme, amplified by conservative outlets as evidence of anti-white bias. Dr. Hesse described the process:

One of my students took a picture of it, put it on the internet, and it got picked up by right-wing media. And then, as you say, Ben Shapiro, Megyn Kelly, and various other people got a hold of it and started to talk about it. And I think the reason why they started to talk about it is because it had been used by a principal in an Upper East Side school in New York, who had sent it out to parents. And the parents had taken umbrage to the idea that there were eight white identities. And of course there’s an organized conservative movement that looks at moments that it can catalyze as latest developments in the culture wars and I got caught up in that.

Reflections on Race and Power

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An upcoming Off-Broadway show called MEXODUS, created by Brian Quijada and Nygel Robinson, is starting to generate buzz in New York City theater circles. It flips the script on who defines American history by centering a forgotten American story of Black and Latino solidarity that is both art and resistance.

This two-man, live-looped hip-hop musical about the rarely discussed Underground Railroad route to Mexico, arrives at a moment when teaching the truth of American history has itself become an act of rebellion. MEXODUS puts that solidarity center stage.

For creatives of color, this musical is a case study in how the right story, told the right way, at the right time, can break through anything in the most challenging of times.

• (03:52) – 10,000 slaves escaped to Mexico

• (22:00) – How white allies funded MEXODUS

• (28:07) – What if schools taught this story?

• (36:03) – 'Hamilton' vs. MEXODUS: The differences

Retro Quote of the Week ❞

“We have to correct the representation of who we are, and start with the accuracy of our history. That’s where we can better educate and make change for our future.” - Estuardo Rodríguez, former CEO, Friends of the American Latino Museum, on preserving Latino history.

3 Questions With Historian Paul Ortiz 🎙️

Spotlight: Paul Ortiz, author, An African American and Latinx History

We spoke to Paul Ortiz, a professor of labor history at Cornell University and author of An African American and Latinx History of the United States. His book exposes the parts America wants to erase and reframes U.S. history by centering Black and Latino solidarity as foundational to American democracy.

What was the reason you wrote this book? Was this personal catharsis?
“The book is very personal... it draws on experiences I had when I was growing up, also in Special Forces in Central America... it’s also really dedicated to my students.”

How important is it to understand our contributions to American history?
“In our communities… we unfortunately internalize self-hatred. Every diaspora that we have whether it’s from Africa or Asia or Latin America, the Caribbean, has these amazing histories of struggle, of resistance, of building democracy. Knowing these histories is so important.”

How have we worked together, and how are we being pitted against each other?
“Racial capitalism teaches us to see each other as competitors… Industrial unionism in the 1930s is probably one of the best examples you can point to when you talk about Black and Brown unity.”

The Playlist 🎧

Inspired in Black and Latino solidarity, some tracks that carry resistance.

• Residente: “This Is Not America (feat. Ibeyi)”

• The Roots: “The OtherSide (feat. Bilal & Greg Porn)”

• Rapsody: “Power (feat. Kendrick Lamar & Lance Skiiiwalker)”

The Screening Room 🎬

• By Whatever Means Necessary: (MGM+): Keith McQuirter’s docuseries on Black–Brown unity through music, politics, and resistance in 1960s Harlem.

• My Dead Friend Zoe (On demand): A sharp dramedy starring Natalie Morales and Sonequa Martin-Green that tackles grief, friendship, and finding connection.

• Twisted Metal (Peacock): Anthony Mackie and Stephanie Beatriz steer the gonzo, video-game adaptation of two leads of color going on a wild ride.

Links We’re Digging 🔗

• Spike Lee on why he shows Black and Puerto Rican unity in his films - (The Grio)

• Historian uncovers the Underground Railroad that ran to Mexico - (USC Dornsife)

• Willy Chavarria is selling Americana: Who belongs in these clothes? - (The Cut)

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• $8/month gets you full access to our members-only section:

  • Exclusive industry interviews

  • Premium film and TV analysis

  • Off-the-record commentary and live Q&As

  • Private IRL pop-up events, screenings, and mixers

This is our room. And it’s time the right people were in it.

A24’s Highest 2 Lowest, from director Spike Lee and star Denzel Washington, arrives in theaters August 15th, with almost no marketing nor promotional support. Social media is debating: is this bias or just business? And how much does the lack of promotion fall on Black audiences? Listen in!

• (2:14) – Is undermarketing Black films bias or just business?

• (10:56) – The long history of under-promoted Black films

• (24:02) – Black audiences carrying films to box office success

Retro Quote of the Week ❞

“I don’t have a lot of faith in any institutions in this country because they have always discredited and disregarded work by women and people of color. Until the body of the people voting on the projects reflects our society, there will be no change.”- Director Melina Matsoukas on her frustration with the movie industry.

3 Questions With Reginald Hudlin 🎙️

Reginald Hudlin, award-winning director, producer, and former BET president, shared his insights with us on the business of Hollywood for Brown & Black creators.

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In this episode, we dissect the 2025 Emmys and break down the shocking Diego Luna snub. How does the star of Disney's Andor, the most critically acclaimed Star Wars series ever made, get shut out completely?! We reveal how the Emmy voting process really works, and why there needs be more judges of color at the Emmys.

• (6:24) – Why multicultural judges matter

• (7:37) – The Latino impact of winning an Emmy

• (19:38) – All the Latino Emmy snubs

Retro Quote of the Week ❞

“Before Star Wars, the only projects I’d get offered would be drug dealers.” - Diego Luna, on Hollywood type-casting and why meaningful roles still matter.

3 Uncomfortable Truths About Latinos and Award Shows Too Hard To Hear

From our latest episode: If you're Latino in entertainment, these insights might hurt, but not knowing them could cost you your career.

Truth 1: Excellence Alone Doesn't Guarantee Latino Recognition.
“What you're essentially saying by snubbing Diego Luna, is that even when we do show up, even if we do get a lead role, even if we do pierce the IP franchise of Star Wars, even if we do get every critic to say that this is the best show this year… even if you do all of that… you are still not going to be nominated.” - Rico on the frustrating realities Latino actors face in awards culture.

Truth 2: Representation in Voting is Everything
“There are more white people in the voting membership than there are people of color. It's reflective in the nomination results. When you see a result like Diego Luna, you ask yourself… “we know you saw it. We know you saw it. You know, it was good. So what made you say no?” - Rico on award show voting demographics.

Truth 3: The Media and Afro-Latino Framing is Still Complicated.
“Everything I read about Lisa Colón-Zayas is ‘first Latina, first Latina, first Latina.’ That’s what I read everywhere.”
— Mike Sargent on how Afro-Latino identity gets flattened in mainstream media.

The Playlist: The Latino Composers 🎧

Celebrate the Latino composers behind your favorite Emmy-nominated TV series:
🎧 Cristóbal Tapia de Veer – “Amor Fati (The White Lotus Theme)”
🎧 Carlos Rafael Rivera – “Dept. Q: Main Title”
🎧 Antonio Sánchez – “The Studio: Main Title”

The Screening Room: The Latina Writers 🎬

• The Studio: “The Promotion” Ep. 1 (Apple TV+) - Dominican-American co-creator of The Studio, Frida Perez, co-wrote the nominated pilot epsiode “The Promotion”.

• The Penguin: “A Great Or Little Thing” Ep. 8 (HBO Max) - Watch Mexican-American showrunner Lauren LeFranc’s Gotham. Emmy-nominated for producing and writing for a limited anthology series.

• The Bear: Season 3 (Hulu) - Mexican-American co-showrunner Joanna Calo sharpens Season 3’s kitchen drama from chaos to deep introspection.

Links We’re Digging 🔗

• 5 Ways Malcolm-Jamal Warner Broke The Mold And Elevated Black Culture - (Forbes)

• The Worst Emmys Snub Is Diego Luna for Andor - (Esquire)

• ‘The Porter’ Is a Rich Period Drama About Labor and Dignity - (New York Times)

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• $8/month gets you full access to our members-only section:

  • Exclusive industry interviews

  • Premium film and TV analysis

  • Off-the-record commentary and live Q&As

  • Private IRL pop-up events, screenings, and mixers

This is our room. And it’s time the right people were in it.

This week we sit down with actor-writer-creator Nyasha Hatendi, the visionary behind Sacrilege: Curse of the Mbirwi, a new horror audio drama from Audible. We go deep on cultural duality, audio storytelling, and why telling the truth might be the most radical act of all.

• (3:42) – How QCode inspired cinematic audio storytelling

• (10:14) – Discovering the power of Black horror

• (39:49) – How truthful storytelling can bring people together

Retro Quote of the Week ❞

“Narratives that truly transcend time and space, are aspirational, positive, and heroic.” - Jeff Gomez, leading expert in transmedia storytelling

3 Questions with Actress Gina Torres 🎙️

Gina Torres spoke with us about the power of telenovelas, navigating Afro-Latina identity between two worlds, and how audio is rewriting the rules of representation.

Spotlight: Gina Torres, Actor/Producer (Princess of South Beach)

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In this episode, we sat down with Academy Award-winning screenwriter Kevin Willmott and Trai Byers to explore the untold true story of The 24th, how 156 Black soldiers rebelled against Jim Crow in 1917 in Houston, how America erased it from history books, and what it takes to film raw truth without a "white savior."

Episode Summary
(8:06) - Why America hides its violent past
(12:39) - Why Hollywood feared this story
(37:06) - Where are the Latino war films?

Retro Quote of the Week ❞

“The history owns us. We don’t own the history.” - Filmmaker and Oscar-winning screenwriter, Kevin Willmott

3 Questions with Jamilah King 🎙️

Mother Jones’s Editorial Director, Jamilah King, on her and her team’s Pulitzer Prize finalist "40 Acres and a Lie" that exposed America's reparations cover-up.

Spotlight: (Jamilah King, Journalist, "40 Acres and a Lie" Investigation)

• How did AI expose America's best-kept reparations secret?

  • "They were looking for something totally different and they stumbled on a land title and they were like, wait, what? The fact that we did get it and it was stripped from us changes the narrative and makes this a story about the fear of Black progress."

• What is mainstream media’s issue with reparations?

  • "People are terrified to talk about wealth, and people are much more comfortable talking about poverty and blaming individuals instead of looking at an issue systemically. This project allows us to put a time, a place, an address, and an actual price of reparations."

• Will we see reparations in our lifetime?

  • "I think we'll see piecemeal reparations. It may not be I get a 1.2 million check, but reparations can mean getting school funding to open up a new school. The conversation has shifted so dramatically even in the last five years."

The Playlist 🎧

A sonic curation to rebellion, legacy, and reckoning:

🎵 “Freedom” – Beyoncé ft. Kendrick Lamar
🎵 “Mississippi Goddam” – Nina Simone
🎵 “Black Man in a White World” – Michael Kiwanuka

The Screening Room 🎬

• The 24th (Hulu): Required viewing. Black resistance, no longer whitewashed.

• BlacKkKlansman (Amazon Prime): Kevin Willmott’s Oscar-winning collaboration with Spike Lee on Black infiltration and truth-telling.

• High on the Hog (Netflix): A food docuseries disguised as a reclamation of African American cultural power.

Links We’re Digging 🔗

• Mother Jones - 40 Acres and A Lie

• The NYTimes - Misty Copeland Changed Ballet. Now She’s Ready to Move On.

• Wall Street Journal - Don’t Tell Ana de Armas She’s the New John Wick

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• $8/month: Get access to exclusive premium industry content for our members-only. Exclusive industry interviews, film analysis, live Q&A’s, off-the-record industry insights, invitations to future private IRL pop-up events, screenings, and meet-ups.
  

  This is our room. And it’s time the right people were in it.

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This week on ‘Brown & Black,’ we deconstruct Ryan Coogler’s SINNERS.
We explore its layered cultural symbolism, audience reactions, Variety’s biased box office framing, and the troubling decision not to release the film in Asian markets, raising questions about anti-Black bias.

Episode Summary
(1:38) – White audiences, Black movies: The paradox
(19:13) – Variety’s bias box office framing
(24:36) – Why Asia skipped Sinners release
(28:02) – Coogler, Peele and Black horror
(32:01) – What lessons ‘Sinners’ offers Brown and Black filmmakers

Retro Quote of the Week ❞

"Horror has traditionally captured the zeitgeist of the time more than any other genre. George Romero was asked what was Night of the Living Dead about and he simply said it was about the MAN... the intrusion of government overstepping." —Latino horror expert Edwin Pagan on horror reflecting the times.

3 Questions with Director Little Marvin 🎙️

Before Sinners, there was THEM. Director Little Marvin shared his insights on Black horror, trauma, and storytelling with Brown & Black that feel more relevant than ever.

Spotlight: Little Marvin (Writer, Producer, Actor, Director)

How did making the Amazon’s terror anthology series THEM change you creatively?

•  The short answer is a lot.  Let's talk about just the Jim Crow South. That was a domestic terror regime. My personal experience… going back over a history of terror is navigating this country and Black skin. It's time we call it out.

What’s your take on the Black trauma storytelling debate?

•  Horror has always trafficked in transgressive imagery and has always had trauma at the heart of it. I could name so many movies where trauma is at the heart of horror, and so that there would be trauma at the heart of a horror story to me is not unique.

Why is horror ideal for social commentary?

• What I love about horror is it has this tremendous ability to take super complex social issues and package them in a way to make it palatable.

The Playlist 🎧

This week we celebrate Ryan Coogler’s SINNERS blues-drenched soundtrack.👇🏿

The Screening Room 🎬

• Andor: Season 2 (Disney+) - Diego Luna returns as Cassian Andor in the Emmy-nominated series, chronicling his journey from rogue to rebel.

• Number One on the Call Sheet (Apple TV+): Hollywood’s top Black talent reflect on the roles that defined their careers.

• The Four Seasons (Netflix): Colman Domingo joins an all-star ensemble in a breakup dramedy that turns one couple’s divorce into a friend group reckoning.

Links We’re Digging 🔗

• The Grio: Audra McDonald makes Tonys history

• WeAreMitu: This Is What Latin Experimental Electronic Sounds Like in 2025

• CannabisNow - Snoop Dogg Talks Weed, Life And Business

Members-Only: Be In The Know 🍸

• $8/month: Get access to exclusive premium industry content for our members-only. Exclusive industry interviews, film analysis, live Q&A’s, off-the-record industry insights, invitations to future private IRL pop-up events, screenings, and meet-ups.

  This is our room. And it’s time the right people were in it.

Share Brown & Black Social Club

When we launched the Brown & Black podcast in February 2020, our mission was clear: to reframe race and pop culture through a Black and Latino lens. With DEI under attack and AI threatening creatives of color, that mission feels more urgent than ever. So we built this space, a bi-weekly cultural newsletter curated like a private “social club” for the multicultural creative class. It’s a room by us, for us. We’re glad you’re here.

Welcome to the club!
- Jack Rico & Mike Sargent

This week on 'Brown & Black,' we unpack OpenAI's 'Image Generator' and the Studio Ghibli AI dilemma, and discuss the cultural, economic, and existential implications AI poses to Black and Latino artists.

Episode Summary:
(3:36) – AI-generated Studio Ghibli? Is this digital cultural appropriation?

(6:05) – Japan’s copyright law loophole. Could U.S. creators be next?

(15:01) – What even is an artist in 2025? AI is blurring creators, remixers, and prompters.

Retro Quote of the Week ❞

“Where is home now? I think it’s in the art. It’s in the movies.” — Oscar-winner Riz Ahmed on finding identity through creativity.

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